1.
2.
3.
Please add to this list.
(I don't want the list of Muslim countries that protested those cartoons a few years ago for miss-representing their God...just a list of countries that showed equal passion for this man who misrepresented their God.)
And on a lighter note:
His Last Facebook Update:
This blog certainly is an education. I had no idea people thought like this To my very liberal ears viewpoints presented in this blog sound sexist, classist, and now racist (at least insinuated). Your blank list communicates that "peace-loving" is sarcasm which generalizes that all Muslims are not peace-loving (like everyone who votes NDP is a socialist!) In this article, political scientists offer a possible reason why there was not the big public celebration you were looking for (from CBC News): http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/05/03/f-vp-brian-stewart-bin-laden.html
ReplyDelete"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." ~ Martin Luther King, Jr
ReplyDeleteThanks for your message. I would disagree that CBC news is illogical and MLK - well, it is MLK! However, I do appreciate your removal of the post, I am sure you did not intend to be offensive, no matter what your personal views are. I have responded to most of the posts on this blog - I am most of the "anonymous" left (only because I keep forgetting to close with my name!), if only to offer another viewpoint and as I said, it has been an education. In my daily life, I do not hear things like I have read on this blog and in truth some of the things written have sounded close-minded and archaic, full of analogies and generalizations but few real facts. Of course, they have not always been your comments which I usually find to be respectful (but wrong :)) Equality of opportunity is a fundamental belief that I hold - but that is just me! Normally, I would not waste time reading and writing on a blog but the recent revelation that I have a family member who votes conservative and possibly shares the viewpoints of those who have posted have prompted me to a) understand exactly what that viewpoint is and b) wonder how we grew up in the same household!
ReplyDeleteTina
Anonymous #1:
ReplyDeleteReligion and race are not the same thing, see the dictionary for further details.
Also, name calling is not the brilliant rebuttal you think it is.
Tina, I reposted for no reasons of disrespect to you or anyone. Thank you for your comments!
ReplyDeleteThanks for the clarification. I suppose socialist is not name-calling?
ReplyDeleteExcuse miss Tina,
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding me? You go to Conservative blogs to figure out the mind of a poor afflicted member of your family? How about pretending your an open minded adult and talking to them directly? Sweet the way you insinuate that there is something verrry wrong with them, Grow up little girl.
But thats just me.... oh brother.
As the most current version of the federal NDP constitution is not available on their website, I am unfortunately quoting the 2001 version. Nonetheless,
ReplyDelete"The New Democratic Party believes that the social, economic and political progress of Canada can be assured only by the application of democratic SOCIALIST principles to government and the administration of public affairs."
Adam,
ReplyDeleteWould you consider commenting on:
http://inspiringyoutothink.blogspot.com/2011/04/what-ndp-party-is-scared-to-admit.html
I don't need to pretend but thanks for the advice. I don't insinuate that there is something wrong with them, I just disagree with the views. "but wrong :), but that is just me!, wonder how we grew up in the same household!" are actually jokes! I won't let that happen again. To clarify - I don't read blogs - just this one as it was brought to my attention and I found it "educational". Also, it welcomed other opinions. What my sister and I talk about is none of your business, but I assure you I would never intentionally offend her. I am sorry if you think that is the case.
ReplyDeleteWas "grow up little girl" really necessary?
Tina
Adam,
ReplyDeleteI think there is a difference between the classic SOCIALISM that some try and paint the NDP as and what they actually are- SOCIAL DEMOCRATS. Out of curiosity, do you recognize a difference between the two, or do you view them as one and the same? Do you think the NDP's ultimate goal is to truly overturn capitalism in this country, or simply reform some of the ways it is practiced in reality and some of its impacts? As someone who is left leaning I myself would appreciate your perspective on this. Thanks.
Amanda
Amanda,
ReplyDeleteI was just going to post the same thing - great minds! Social democrats and democratic socialism is not the same thing as socialism (as in the lower form of communism).
Oh, sorry - I said I would not try to make jokes. Scratch the great minds comment.
ReplyDeleteTina
"...socialist is not name-calling?"
ReplyDeleteAgain, get thee to a dictionary, then see the dipper constitution.
Accuracy is not name calling.
Similarly a religion is a set of beliefs, not a race, and nothing more or less. These beliefs can happen to result in an aggressive, conquest obessed, women depowering, racist tinged mass movement. With an explicit aim to replace democracy with their own 'religious law'. And as a bonus these beliefs are frozen in time, you may not question them. And if you happen to grow up in them and want to leave at some point, death awaits you. Especially if you are a young woman.
Still think that is all lovey dovey equal and everything?
Back to the post at hand. It's an interesting point you've brought up Ryan. I'm not sure what conclusions can be drawn here.
ReplyDeletePerhaps most Muslims in other countries just want to move on with their lives in peace. After all, the majority of Muslims in this world have also been subject to terror and exploitation at the hands of the radicals, they've had their faith tarnished on the world stage by a group of tyrannical murderers who have erroneously labeled their "cause" as a Muslim mission. I would think that many peace loving Muslims (as most of them are) could also likely be afraid of the backlash from the radicals still alive in their communities if they were to publicly celebrate the death.
Perhaps it's an indication of a media bias? Airing footage of Muslims in other countries celebrating the death of OBL doesn't exactly lend support to the US's rationale for the ongoing war on terror. Showing large groups of peaceful Muslims in Arab countries undermines the perpetuated notion that many of them support the terrorism that the US is waging a war on. I realize this is a very cynical idea but it's something I'm interested in considering.
No answers here, just thoughts.
Amanda
If Bush had been killed (heaven forbid), there would have been dancing in the streets for days.
ReplyDeleteBin Laden is an admired man for people in those countries. Not surprising they're quiet about his death. What's strange is they admire a man who created so much suffering.
You are inaccurate. I am not a socialist. As far as being "lovey dovey" etc... I did not say anything about the religion, but I would never define an entire group by the actions of a radical. I was suggesting that there may be other reasons for Ryan's observation. Likewise, just because I believe that taxes should go to social services does not make me a socialist.
ReplyDeleteAmanda,
ReplyDeleteThe muslim world hates America. Not all the people but many enjoyed the 9/11 attacks. There is no doubt about it. CBC's list is wrong because it leaves our countries like Ethiopia, a country that has a heavy muslim population that rejects this type of terrorism. As for social services, they provide temporary relief while robbing a generation or two of realizing their potential. Socialism doesn't believe society can take care of its own without the government, which is a total lie. If we are talking about race, lets talk about black America. Blacks have been robbed because all the government has done is give out food stamps and provide welfare. If you go to communities where black didn't have access to social services and compare them to the ghettos that do, you will see that blacks that didn't get money from the government telling them it will take care of them, went on to become business owners, lawyers and teachers.
I'm sorry Tina I was trying to be helpful.
ReplyDeleteYou may think you are full of amusing quips but you should be aware that come off as a condesending 14 year old.
But take heart no one has passive aggresively complemented you by saying the following;
In my daily life, I do not hear things like I have read on this blog and in truth some of the things written have sounded close-minded and archaic, full of analogies and generalizations but few real facts "
You have a nice evening now. :O)
Grey Lady
ReplyDeleteThank you for your assessment. I will take that under advisement. I honestly did not intend to be offensive or 14 and I have rather enjoyed some of the debates. I had no idea I sounded this way to other. This is actually how I write (and by the way have been highly rewarded for it even though someone on this blog once said I likely have been shielded by meritocracy - that is not all together true), but perhaps unappreciated in this forum. I hope though that you would agree that you can respect someone for having an opinion even if you completely disagree with them. I have also been questioned on my facts - no offense taken - and written in support of some of my leftie friends so as to have more balance in the discussion, and it is true that I have never before heard some of the comments that I have read. For example, I really had no idea that there are people who believe that in general a woman's role is to be at home and I really did not know that it was a commonly held belief that those who are poor have just made poor decisions or are not working hard enough. Perhaps the blogger who posted that public education teaches a leftist perspective is right because I do not teach these the aforementioned beliefs. In my daily life, these viewpoints do not surface and from my perspective they do sound close minded and archaic. It has been an education - no quip there. My post was a compliment to Ryan for how he has handled his posts and an explanation as to why I am on this blog to begin with. I have also appreciated and learned from all those bloggers who posted sourced facts as well as questioned all those who did not. If an opposing viewpoint and/or my so-called amusing quips are not appreciated, I will no longer post. No problem. Ding-dong the witch is dead (probably a quip, but really just a more dramatic ending).
Tina
Amanda:
ReplyDeleteTake a look at the constitution of the federal NDP, and see if this matches what you believe in, and I suspect, voted for.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/28843857/Federal-NDP-Constitution-Out-of-Date-2001
In particular I point out the following,
"That the production and distribution of goods and services shall be directed to meeting the social and individual needs of people within a sustainable environment and economy and not to the making of profit"
and
"The New Democratic Party holds firm to the belief that the dignity and freedom of the individual is a basic right that must be maintained and extended"
I don't purport to be an expert on socialism/democratic socialism, but I do think and believe that those two points are not compatible with each other. How can one be free, and yet not allowed to make a profit?
So yes, it seems that in their own constitution they are, in essence, calling for the end of capitalism; at the very least the end of it as we recognize it.
What's your take on democratic socialism vs "tried and true" (I jest) socialism?
Oh and in regards to OBL and support in the Muslim world:
ReplyDeletehttp://pewglobal.org/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-largely-discredited-among-muslim-publics-in-recent-years/
Basically, OBL enjoyed about the same level of support in Pakistan in 2010 as did Michael Ignatieff in our election on Monday! If we go back a few years to 2008 that number jumps to "orange crush" levels. Food for thought.
1930's Germany is the perfect example of what happens when socialism is the controlling theme.
ReplyDeleteSomeone takes the helm and sentences the whole country to hate and war, if you don't believe me just ask anyone who lived the Dachau death camp or Auschwitz.
Socialism is just state controlled destruction, we want exactly the opposite.
I loved the last Facebook post!
ReplyDeleteHere is another from the Dennis Miller Show:"I hear that TLC (The Learning Channel) is going to be giving Navy Seals Team Six their own reality show. It's going to be called 'Extreme Home Takeover'!"
Grey Lady,
ReplyDeleteYou are out of line. Now this debate will be one-sided. Much like a majority government - no opposition.
TJ
Free,
ReplyDeleteHitler was also a fascist dictator whose actions were fuelled by antisemitism. His death camps were a result of his racism, not his longings for socialism. I don't think socialism was the controlling theme in this example, rather, antisemitism was.
I understand your fears here but I think it's unfair to paint the NDP or the Liberal party with the same brush as you would a racist dictator. Just my thoughts.
Amanda
NDP and Hitler? NDP and war for that matter? Not a fair comparison. This is an example of a generalization that seems common in many of the posts on this blog. If you want a debate, you should stick to facts.
ReplyDeleteTJ
My dear Tina,
ReplyDeleteThis is NOT my blog, you do not have to take your ball home. You were here first. I am sure I now owe Ryan an apology. Please excuse me Ryan.
Amanda - regarding what Muslims think, try asking a few converts from Islam (if you can find living ones. no, that's not hyperbole). I think that Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book "Infidel" could be instructive in this way. I'm only part-ways in, but it's the autobiographical part describing her upbringing and what they "knew" to be true (as taught by the elders). Does it describe all who grew up under Islam? Of course not. But groups being made of individuals, it gives a glimpse inside the mindset that hates us the most.
ReplyDeleteMike in AB
Mike-
ReplyDeleteThanks for the book recommendation. It's on my list.
To be clear, I don't think that I denied that there are significant numbers of radicals who hate those who don't support their cause. However, I personally don't think of it as a "Muslim cause". A group of people have taken the holy book and twisted its tenets in way that suits them. That's not Muslim, that's radical and that's terrorism. The large majority of Muslims in this world are peaceful, but we don't see that.
I fully understand that there are people who are anti-western. It's unfair to claim, however, that an entire religious group is. I hope I'm being clear with my thoughts on this but I apologize if I'm not.
Ok, I'll add to it:
ReplyDelete4.
5.
On a side note, OBL and satan are now BFF.
To Miss Grey Person
ReplyDeleteUntil now I have enjoyed the debates posted on Ryan’s Blog. It is unrealistic to assume we all have the same ideas and beliefs when we are at different ends of the spectrum. You were completely out of line to attack Tina on her posts when you took it to a personal level with your insults, which are inappropriate unwarranted and down right childish. The apology was a nice first step but directed to the wrong individual. Your posts perpetuate the image of the conservative bully.
TJ
Re: libtard gold: must make a point sir/madam without directly degrading. I would love to see a repost.
ReplyDeleteThank you:By Anonymous on A list: at 15:04for your post. Per my request above: go after the idea, not the person. You may have valid point re: attitude of left as superior. it may be also be true, the person who holds said attitude is as you say. On this blog go after the ideas. I am excited to see your next comment.
ReplyDeletePrejudice based on religion is included in the definition of racism under Ontario’s Human Rights Code -Racism and Racial Discrimination:
ReplyDelete"You should not be treated differently because of your race or other related grounds, such as your ancestry, ethnicity, religion or place of origin"
I am not sure that "get thee to a dictionary" is called for if you are simply using two different definitions. I think the point was that a comment (that seems to no longer exist) insinuated some kind of prejudice, at least to Tina. I would say that some of the other comments posted here do as well. Are you certain this is the image you want to portray on this blog?
You will be waiting a long time on that list-the US just killed their hero. I'm still waiting for Muslims to condemn 9/11! Islam is not a race, it is the most intolerant religion on the planet so wake up infidels. Wish I could buy those Navy Seals a cold one.
ReplyDeleteMatt:
ReplyDeleteActually Islam in it's strictest sense is not a religion. It is a complete system of life. It seeks to control every aspect of your life and is bent on conquering. It has religious, political, economic, social, military and legal aspects.
For a little bit more information for a controversial but well researched book by Peter Hammond have a look here:
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/islam-is-not-a-religion-but-a-system-of-life/question-1584829/
Gerald
Correction up above: the first sentence of the Martin Luther King quote actually is by a Twitter user whose statement got mixed into the MLK quote.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.freep.com/article/20110502/NEWS09/110502087/On-Facebook-viral-MLK-quote-isn-t-his
It is just the first sentence that is different. It is the same sentiment. Actual quotation: "Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. So it goes. ... Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
ReplyDeleteContext of the quotation: A call to fight prejudice by non-violent means